Tuesday, April 8, 2008
Algebra 2 -- CP Geom flip-flop
I have heard for years that we should "fix" our course sequence regarding CP Geometry and Algebra II. The sequence was originally chosen to cater to non-advanced CP students who would be taken the SAT once in the middle of their junior year. With our current sequence, these students would have completed geometry before their SAT test. This is not the concern it once was, since students have many chances to take the SAT -- as late as the fall of their senior year if they want. There are several things for us to consider here: PSSA preparation, SAT prep, How does a switch affect Trig/Alg III? How does the switch affect Alg II? How does the switch affect CP Geom? Are CP Geom teachers willing to teach Alg II for one year (during the transition)? A lot to chew on... Start grazing!
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8 comments:
Angie Lombardo at MHS posted this one:
Hi, I don’t know if you made the decision yet but I gave it some thought. I know they would remember Alg I better for Alg II BUT how much Alg are they going to remember for college if the last time they had it was in 10th grade. I’m thinking about the college prep kids who aren’t taking alg III & trig. and normally take Alg II in 11th grade. I remember my calculus teacher saying that he would rather have a student that had very good alg skills rather than someone who has already taken calculus.
Kids who are not math majors would have to take regular college alg. They do not have to take geometry in college. How much are they going to remember from 10th grade?
I’m still not sure what the right thing to do is, I was just wondering if you gave this perspective some thought.
It is very difficult to determine exactly which choice would be better. If they were to swap, there are a few possibilities as to what could happen.
First and most obvious is that students would almost certainly have a much easier time making the transition to Algebra 2 from 1 being that there will only be a gap of a few months where they are not exposed to it. In addition to this, it seems as though they may have a more firm grasp of Algebra 2 coming out of the class being that they have now had two full years of Algebra right in a row. If this is the case, students may actually retain more Algebra coming out of high school because they were able to get a deeper understanding of it initially.
With a gap between the two , it may be harder for students to re-adjust to the Algebra mindset, and thus have a harder time understanding the concepts as deeply as they should. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.
However, having some experience as a tutor, I have noticed that the few students I've delt with all seemed to have struggled remembering the Algebra 1 material. Although the sample pool I delt with is very small, it did seem to show a slight trend.
Currently teaching Algebra II, I think it is best left where it is right now after Geometry. I think it makes the transition into Algebra III/ Trig easier as well as the Calculus they may take in high school or college. Also, as Angie Lombardo said, they need to know more Algebra II for college than Geometry. I think the kids know and understand the Algebra II better when they are a little older.
Another reason to keep the Algebra II after Geometry is the PSSA. Most of the kids taking Algebra II are 11th grade students. They are using the graphing calulators almost daily. Having and using the graphing calulators on the PSSA is such a great advantage. Also, we were able to test all 3 grades at once at GAR because we counted on the 11th grade students using their graphing calulators.
I lean towards Alg1 followed by Alg2 and then geometry. I think we spend too much time reviewing Alg1 topics when we should be moving into ALg2 right from the first week. I found Trig to be a combination of Alg and Geometry with a great emphasis on Geometric topics. I have seen that we no longer teach proofs as we did in the past and this has a great impact on their logic skills. The teachers tell me they are too young and not ready for formal proofs. I think we should give the new transition a try for 2 or 3 years. We can't know if it will work if we never try it. It is successful in many other high schools that have made the change.
When I went to high school, the track was algebra 1, algebra 2, then geometry. I always thought our current structure was inefficient. With algebra 2 following right behind algebra 1, the students review less and get right back into the thick of things algebra-wise. Since algebra is the key tool in calculating all higher math, it makes sense to master it first. This should make calculation work in geometry easier, spending more time on the idea of reasoning and proofs. Also, being better versed in algebra, students will most likely see the twists and such better when working out proofs, etc.
The following was a consensus reached at the monthly building meeting at GAR:
"The general consensus was to leave it the way it is. Mike Jarus pointed out that if the switch was made, we would have the advanced kids taking Algebra II in 9th grade. We all agreed that those kids are really too young to have Algebra II. It was also discussed how Algebra II really prepares the kids for Algebra III and Calculus. So, it is better to keep them following each other in the curriculum. The last reason that was stated to keep Geometry before Algebra II is because of the graphing calculators. A majority of the Algebra II students are 11th graders. They learn and use the graphing calculator daily. They then use them on the PSSA test, which gives them a great advantage. Also, GAR would not have enough calculators to test 3 grades at once here if we did not have the 11th graders using the graphing calculators."
Corinne Drost
In my years of teaching Mathematics I have taught Geometry, Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. I really can see things from many perspectives which can very often be a curse.
First as a Geometry teacher I spent many days re-teaching Algebra 1 topics as the kids really never truly grasped these new concepts or perfected their skills. Then when it came to proofs - students did not seem to be able to think analytically in order to get the true benefits of Geometry. This was definitely what made teaching Geometry more difficult. I never truly believed that all kids were mentally prepared for the rigor of Formal Proofs. Now on the flip side I know they need the Geometry for the SAT’s and this would be a down side to changing the current order, changing it would benefit the Geometry teacher in a big way as they would be able to teacher Geometry to the level that it really needs to be taught. Filling answers into a proof is not (in my opinion) the way that a formal high school student develops his brain. I feel that if the sequence were changed – they would be so much more prepared to really tackle formal proofs ( if they are still done?)
Second as an Algebra 1 teacher for much of my career – I see students enter that cannot even do signed number and it is so demanding to get them to solve efficiently and with great steps. Algebra 1 teachers first and foremost must get kids to really be expert equation solvers or they will never succeed in Geometry. I find that the kids in Algebra 1 get the basics – then as they proceed to Geometry they do some Algebra 1 (equations, parallel lines, perpendicular lines, systems etc), then they forget many skills for Algebra 2. Many teachers say they are not ready for Algebra 2 topics – but I do believe if the sequence was allowed to proceed from Alg.1 to Alg.2 and then to Geometry the students would proceed in an order that would make more sense to them rather than skipping from one way of thinking (concrete) to another ( analytical) .
In conclusion – I really know that the Trig students may also not benefit from the change because they may not remember many of the ALG. 2 concepts that are needed – but I find myself reviewing them a lot anyway – so who is to say – maybe there is no real solution. I would like to see the change – but the rigor of higher order math may not to make the final say. I just know that the Trig and Calc kids will definitely do well no matter what – they are the cream of the crop and cream does rise to the top. I am okay with whatever is chosen, but thought I would add my point!
This issue has been tabled for this year. It will only complicate some scheduling issues that have arisen with the new Skyward program. I've decided to spare the principals one more headache!
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